Engineering Your Path to Freedom with Zach White

FN Intro/Outro: 00:00:02

Welcome to the Freedom Nation podcast with Jeff Kikel. On this show, Jeff shares his expertise in financial and retirement planning from a different perspective, planning for your Freedom Day, which is the first day that you wake up and have enough income or assets and do not have to go to work that day. Learn how to calculate what you need, how to generate income sources, and listen to interviews from others who've done it themselves, get ready to experience your own Freedom Day.

Jeff Kikel: 00:00:36

Hey, Freedom Nation, it's Jeff here once again. And it is another of our shows where we interview people on the path towards their freedom day. And today I have Zach White on Zach by trade is an engineer, he went to college, decided to become an engineer got out there in the engineering world and completely burned out and had to find a way to move on. So we're gonna find out a little bit about his story today and how he has gotten into a world that he loves every day, which is what we all focus on with Freedom Day, and how he's working and building towards his own personal freedom day. So Zack, welcome to the show, my friend,

Zach White: 00:01:17

Jeff, it's so good to be here. Appreciate the warm intro. And let's get after it, man. I love it

Jeff Kikel: 00:01:22

Well, let's kick it off with your story. First off, so tell me a little bit about how you got to where you're at today.

Zach White: 00:01:28

We already mentioned my humble beginnings in mechanical engineering. And once an engineer always an engineer, Jeff, it's in my blood, it's in my DNA. But to your point, I burned out and experienced a true rock bottom in my career, that really changed everything for me, ended up divorced, depressed, extremely frustrated with that question. And you know, how did my life end up here? Is this it like is this really all that there is like, there has to be a different way. And in the process of recovering from the grief from the, you know, the burnout, everything that came up in that time, I hired my first coach. And I asked my coach then said, Hey, I, I still want to be successful. But it's got to look different than it did these first six, seven years in my career. I mean, this was awful. It's got to be there. I need help. And my coach had such a transformational impact on my life, my career exploded, I worked less I was happier than ever. I got happily remarried, everything started working for me. And I said, well, I need to learn this coaching thing like this is really, really powerful. It'll help my engineers this is going to help my team. And it began as just a tool in the tool belt, if you will. But in 2019, I had my epiphany moment where the journey through an engineering career collided with my passion for entrepreneurship and desire for freedom, exactly what you're talking about. And asking, like, how can I make this happen? I know I want this, but I don't really know how to do it or what business to start. And then it hit me like, Wow, I love engineering. I love coaching. I love entrepreneurship. Why not take what I learned the hard way, and build a system and a model that engineering leaders can use to build their careers, but balance their life and don't make the same mistakes that I made and my business now, oasis of courage. The waco for short, what we do is exclusively support Engineering Leadership, on how to build the career of their dreams, in the context of the life of their dreams. And that's me all day, every day now.

Jeff Kikel: 00:03:35

That is awesome. So let's let's kind of reverse back a little bit. How did you select that first coach? What were some of the your requirements for that first coach?

Zach White: 00:03:47

Honestly, Jeff, it was proximity. And I didn't even see it coming. I really didn't go looking for a coach. What happened was a great friend of mine from church, saw what I was going through with the divorce saw that I was in a lot of pain and that I was really not doing well. And said, Hey, I know you're seeing a counselor and working on this. But I know this coach who will really understand where you're at and understands your vision for the future and the success you want. Would you like to meet her? And a smile? I mean, sure. Do you think it'll help? I got nothing. I was truly at rock bottom.

Jeff Kikel: 00:04:24

Yeah, you throw a drowning man. Anything at that point? It's exactly

Zach White: 00:04:30

exactly it, Jeff. It's like, Oh, if this floats I'll hold on. Right. And so I had that first session. And it was an immediate connection. And I understand not every time do you get that lucky. But I just think you know, God put the right person in my life at the right time. And I just was in in proximity. So I wish I could say I had the secret sauce for how to find the perfect coach on the first swing. But this was part of my story where I can just say that one was Grace. Yeah.

Jeff Kikel: 00:04:56

Well, and I think you know, it's it's sometimes it's that gut feel You know, it's gotta be, it's gonna be probably one of the most personal relationships you have. I mean, I've, I've told things to my coaches that I never have told anybody else. I've shared things and having that kind of personal relationship with somebody that not only, you know, when I look at, it not only helps me to be better, but helps me to be a better me. And a lot of cases, is what I look for. And you know, and I found that that kind of string of people, whether it by providence, or by, by, you know, saying that I'm that smart, but a lot of times I think it's by providence.

Zach White: 00:05:39

Yeah, the only thing I have noticed in my journey and with people I coach, Jeff, that I would add to that, because I agree, we need to trust our intuition yet, especially for engineering leadership, or anybody who can relate to being analytical, logical, and their approach to life really stuck in their head, learning to trust your gut to trust your intuition is important. The one thing that that I'm thankful for, is that I, you know, I had that immediate connection, it was easy for me. But I've seen a lot of people who don't feel that connection to their coach right out of the gate, and they say up wrong person, then they visit the next coach, they still don't have a connection up wrong person, the next coach, the next coach, it's this revolving door of coaches, and it's just a reminder, to anybody who's looking for a coach, you are also a common denominator, wherever you go, there you are. And if you do not have a willingness to open up and allow somebody into your life, if you're just not trusting of anyone, then it won't matter who the coaches and so I always like to challenge people really give it a chance, if this coach is proven if they have the track record, if they're really someone aligned with your vision, and you're confident that you've seen the results with other clients, give it a little bit of time and make sure you're not the one who's not letting them in. Because that can happen. So Oh, yes. Just watch our own ego, it can get in the way. Right?

Jeff Kikel: 00:07:02

Yeah. Oh, God. Yes. And and our own I know everything. And I'm, I don't, I'm not going to get anything out of this. Oh, boy. Tell me a little bit about, you know, as far as the training for you, what was that training like, you know, as generally as a coach to begin with? And then kind of second question, what was that like now adapting that towards engineers, which traditionally, I don't run into a lot of coaches that coach engineer, so you're kind of an unusual business to begin with. But what is that? You know, what's that, like coaching an engineer versus, let's say, a business owner?

Zach White: 00:07:43

Jeff, the principle for me that guided that decision is to go look for what is the industry best practice? Who has the proven system? Who can I model that's already doing what I want to do. And so when I looked for coaching training, I just started asking all the coaches I knew who I respected, including my own coach, where did you train? What are the different options for training? Where would you train now, if you could start over again, with the people you've met? And who's in your network? Who do I need to talk to at those training programs to get an understanding, I just started collecting the evidence of who's converging on best of best here. And there were only two programs that really stood out as a perfect fit for what I wanted to do. And so I just, you know, weighed the pros and cons. And it turned out the format of one was a more immersive, consolidated timeline. I wanted to get my certification quickly. So I went that direction. I mean, both would have been great. Your coaching to your point as a discipline is agnostic to the content. Yeah. Are you an engineer? Are you a banker? Are you an entrepreneur? Are you a mom, like doesn't really matter? The core ideas of being a great coach is about helping you become the best version of yourself through a set of tools and practices and powerful questions and a powerful relationship, a powerful conversation. So for me taking the training, you know, this skill set of how to create unleash potential and human, you know, the human heart so to speak, and help you be your best. It wasn't that hard for me to take my engineering lens then and say, you know, what are the systems and tools that I know need to happen to create success in a career which I had done, and then bring these things together and you'll kind of create Zak's way my methodology, which we call the lifestyle engineering blueprint. How do we pull everything we know from from our engineering world? I'm a mechanical engineer, by degree, but I'm a lifestyle engineer through the school of hard knocks Jeff, yes, that's why I got that degree. And so that's what we created for our clients is smashing these two ideas together.

Jeff Kikel: 00:09:59

I love that Well, and I am the son of a mechanical engineer slash quality control engineer. So it's like an engineer unsterile. There you go. So I know exactly where you're coming from, from that perspective. So. So let's talk a little bit about, you know, what it engagement would typically look like. So if I'm an engineering leader, I'm sitting there that comes to me and says, hey, I can help get you to where you want to be. What does that engagement typically look like?

Zach White: 00:10:25

Yeah, the insight that I found in coaching engineers, is that the typical model of, you know, we're gonna meet once a month, we're going to meet twice a month for a one on one, we're going to talk about your career and your problems, we're going to give you some tips and insights, give you some homework, we'll meet again in two weeks, or we'll meet again about that is great, I don't want to dismiss coaches who act in that format. And that's how I started. But what I realized Jeff, was that the engineering leaders, I was talking to the people who really wanted more who were either were burned out today and needed help to escape that trap, or they were on a great trajectory, and they really wanted to accelerate their career path, those low level of interaction just didn't get over the threshold of energy in to create the shift and the transformation of growth, to really accelerate your full potential. So in engagement with Oasis of courage, our our signature program is a 90 day immersion, where we're going deep, we're coaching every week, we're doing training, we're doing exercises, you're doing one on ones, you're doing group coaching, we really come at it as a whole person from all different angles. And you're so immersed in this experience of challenging yourself and trying on new action and getting out of your comfort zone. And it's all very different than your normal day to day experience. Well, getting out of that normal rhythm is what opens the door to these big shifts these big changes. And it's it's like an inflection point. I wish I'd been nerdy here, you know, it's it's that change in trajectory. That's what we want to create in your life. And then once you have that momentum, then we have ongoing coaching programs for those monthly check ins are those things for people who want to stay in the support with their coach, but I just said, You know what, I'm I'm tired of dabbling in people's growth. Let's go all in. And we want to work with clients who say, yeah, that's for me. I'm an all in kind of leader. If you want to dabble, there's a lot of coaches you can can dabble with, but I'm not into it.

Jeff Kikel: 00:12:31

Right? I like that approach where it's just Okay, we're gonna It's like learning a language immersion theory. I'll just drop you in the middle of Mexico. And you'll figure out a freakin speak Spanish eventually.

Zach White: 00:12:42

Right? That's right. You know, it's the it's the boot camp model. It's proven. It's been around a long time. And this is our version for those engineering leaders who say I want more.

Jeff Kikel: 00:12:51

Yeah, well, but I think you know, it also makes, it allows you to show them that a change could be made quickly. And that's right, now you're moving in that you get the momentum going. And it's a lot easier to make a rock continue to roll than it is to get it started pushing at that point. And you know, just pushing it every week doesn't really make it roll down the hill.

Zach White: 00:13:14

Exactly. And Jeff, you know, what makes me so happy is when I see a client, I'm thinking of my client, John, this guy came in, he was lost, he was upset, frustrated, he was unhappy. And in 90 days, on the other side of that, he told me, Wow, I have energy, I feel enthusiastic about my career. I'm expanding the scope of my role. I'm happy every day. And the real way I know it's working, Jeff, is he said, My wife has been telling me every day that she almost doesn't recognize me at home, because I'm so much more fun to be around. I'm such a different person. And she's telling me whatever you're doing, keep doing because this is the man I want to be with. And that's when you know, it says this is the you did something

Jeff Kikel: 00:14:00

Yeah, I think back when I when I sold my business, the outside I sold my my business interest in the business that I was part of. And it's so funny all summer last year, because this happened almost a year ago, all summer last year as I was kind of going through all this and it was like an upheaval in my life and everything else. The most common thing that I found from every single person I ran into that knew me for years was like, You are happier than I've ever seen you. You know, and it's like, Was I that miserable of a jackass that just I just seemed miserable to everybody, but I didn't think I was any different. But yeah, it was just one I think sometimes it's it's having a feeling you have a purpose. Again, you have a clarifying purpose in your life. And when you do that, it just kind of relieves all those tensions that you have that are conflicting with you. Mm hmm.

Zach White: 00:14:56

Purpose is one of the four pillars of our coaching methodology. See the lifestyle engineering blueprint for that exact reason? And you're right, Jeff, if you're not happy, can we really call whatever you have success. And yeah, my podcast is called the happy engineer for that reason, it's like one of those rare things to find, is a truly happy engineer. So let's change that. That's what we're

Jeff Kikel: 00:15:18

And when you find them, they are like, amazingly, I mean, they're the most creative people you're ever going to meet. And, you know, they're, they enjoy what they do, and they live, you know, they live for that every day. I think of it in my dad's life. I mean, he had many times where he had, you know, leadership positions. But what made him happy was just being a dyed in the wool flat out engineer, you know, I don't want to do all the the management side of things, just let me fix problems. And when he, when he got into that field, really the final role of his career where he retired from, really for the, you know, he ran the quality control department, they've stayed out of his way, just let him do what he needed to do. And he fixed problems, and he was the happiest I've ever seen him in his life, you know, before he retired, and, you know, then then they got bought out by another company and other company came in and like, well, we want you to step into leadership. And he's like, See ya, I'm out of here. I'm done.

Zach White: 00:16:15

Yeah. Well, you know, I, I think it's really important story to, for people to notice, like, you don't have to wait until you're near retirement age to figure these things out. Yeah. And that's the important part. Like the safety you

Jeff Kikel: 00:16:28

Got some time. Yeah, spend some time early on, you know, if you don't feel like things are working, find a coach that can help you to go through that. So let's, let's talk a little bit about your method and those those key pillars of your method that you use.

Zach White: 00:16:45

Yes. So the lifestyle engineering blueprint, imagine a picture of a house, the foundation of that house is your mindset, okay? The mindset starts, everything, your perspective, in the present, pours the foundation for your future. So the foundation of everything we coach is in your mindset. Then there's, you know, the four corner posts, the pillars of this house, if you will, purpose, priority, productivity, and people. And every strategy, every tool, every technique that you need to advance in your career lands in one of these four buckets, you're either disconnected from your why your purpose, your values, you're not living in an aligned way, where you know, there's an issue there, we need to solve that your priorities aren't clear. You know, Jeff, you'll probably appreciate this, you've been in business, but we often have 100 things competing for that top slot. And what we do is we just say they're all the priority. But the truth is, there is no such thing as equal priority, there's only a lack of priority. So getting that discipline of saying what really matters, and what matters now, is a really key thing in terms of our vision, our goals, and how we work, how we operate, productivity, we got to get it done, go move the needle. And there's a difference between being busy and being productive. And then that people aspect if you know, any engineers, or you are one, you'll appreciate this is not always a strength for the typical technical minded individual. And recognizing, Hey, you don't get to success alone, you must build those communication skills, those relational skills. It's just crucial. And the fact is, getting around a person who's already solved the problem that you want to solve is the fastest way to succeed. So learning how to work with people better, and integrate that in and then the roof of the house. Jeff, we call it your playbook. And the the fact for this that I see and myself as an engineer and our clients is that knowledge is not power. Whoever told you that only told you half the story. knowledge that you use, knowledge that you implement that you take action on creates power, but intelligent people love to consume knowledge, listen to podcasts, read books get smarter. But that's not the problem for most people. They know too much in most cases, and they're not doing enough. So the playbook is to say, Okay, now we have the mindsets. We have the strategies and tools, the knowledge, but are you taking action? Are you living with confidence and courage and getting out there and doing the hard things every day that it takes to experience that happiness in that life you want? A lot of times the rubber doesn't meet the road? Right so we got we got to do that we call that your playbook and that pulls it all together.

Jeff Kikel: 00:19:43

I love it. I absolutely love it. Well and I love the imagery too that you use, you know kind of describing it as a you know as building a house effectively. Because regardless of what type of engineer you are, you understand how a house is put together. You've had had some kind of training in how a house is put together, whether you're an electrical engineer, you understand that all the, the bones of the house still, so that that imagery, I think is extremely effective for your audience. And I think, you know, it's a great example of niching down to something that one, you, I mean, you have street cred, because you were you were there before them. But you know, the other part is, you're able to speak their language correctly, and you understand their language, to be able to make it work for them. Because most people, you know, most people that are coaches are not, they don't coach engineers, so they don't know how to speak the language, and they tend to speak at or over. You know, what most engineers are thinking, you know, they're talking about topics and mindset, you know, from a different perspective of kind of woowoo versus, you know, okay, I need, I need basics and data.

Zach White: 00:20:56

Yeah. I mean, Jeff, you do this really well, what do you think about freedom nation and the language that's created, people want to feel like they're part of a community and a tribe, that you get me, and we're together on this, this mission towards whatever the thing we want is, and so when you can speak the language of your ideal client, and whatever business it is not so much that they feel confused, you don't want to use so much fancy language, you're separating folks. But just enough that they, they get it, they resonate with it, and it feels special, like you're really speaking to me, that's a really powerful way to help that person, make the decisions they need to advance in their life. And so that it's, you know, it's useful. It's working for me, I know, it's awesome. Yeah, to see how you execute that.

Jeff Kikel: 00:21:45

You just have to Yeah, I mean, you have to speak people's language of your, like you said, your tribe. So what's new in your world? What what are you working on now for the future? Well,

Zach White: 00:21:54

I'll give you a little insider look, one of the things that we're doing is looking at AI, which is a huge trend right now in every corner of industry, and everybody needs to be paying attention to how it will change your corner of the world. But as a coach, I'm looking at this and saying, Well, how do we take these AI tools, and take the proven systems, the proven techniques, the questions that are powerful the the ways that we help clients to unlock these places where they get stuck in their careers, and build some of that predictable, recurring type of content into an AI engine, that an engineering leader could sit down and interact with, and get meaningful insights to build their career, which would then make that accessible at a cost structure that's, you know, extraordinarily cheaper than talking to Zack. So, you know, with my mission being to impact as many lives as we can, I love the idea that not only could we elevate the quality of the experience for our clients, but also create something where people might get the nuggets of value they need when they need it in a much more affordable way. So looking at AI is a big thing for us. Right now. We're doing work. And the cool part, Jeff is my clients are building these AI tools. And so I have inside track to get the like, hey, what's really possible here and what's on the horizon? And then scaling up, Jeff. Yeah, just like you talked about on this show Freedom Day for me, I'm not there yet. I have a vision for that. And I'd like to see not only the impact in terms of number of clients grow. But the cash creation and the opportunities that that creates for my own life, of course, is a factor. And so working on scaling up this business, we have a program that works, and it's time to just hit the gas.

Jeff Kikel: 00:23:45

Well, and is it a repeatable system? I'm assuming that you could train other coaches to do as a result? Well, how do you make those acts?

Zach White: 00:23:53

That's a great, that's a great question. And, you know, a big part of what we focus on is to remind our clients, you know, what, what helps you get the results is the process. It's not that Zach is a magician. It's not that I'm so smart that I can solve every problem. What we've done is we've distilled the wisdom of how I went from a to b. And all I do as a coach, it's I'm the guide, you know, I'm the Gandalf to your Frodo here. It's like, look, this is the path. If you will walk it, you will get the result. And so we're really intentional to share with people like yes, it's great to talk to Zack and yes, I'm a great coach. And I can help you in so many ways. But at the same time, if you will walk the process and do the work. I've already got two other coaches on our team who are tremendous. And in many cases, Jeff, one of their insights might actually be better than what I would bring, right because we're everybody has a unique lens. And so to your point, I think it is absolutely scalable and repeatable. And now it's just down to that marketing and sales engine. Yeah. How do you get people's attention and get them? Yeah. Oh, aware of how much of a difference it can make.

Jeff Kikel: 00:25:03

You just had to nerd it up with the Lord of the Rings didn't check.

Zach White: 00:25:08

I'll I can't resist if I'm still an engineer, man. I can't help I'm an I am a nerd through the roof, man.

Jeff Kikel: 00:25:18

I own it. And I'm there, man. I'm not afraid of cool. Well, let's, let's transition into the Fast Five questions, and we'll find out your answers to these you ready? Awesome. Let's go. Alright, here we go. So first question, you wake up in the morning, business is totally gone. You have a laptop computer, you still have all the knowledge in your head. You have a place to live food and clothing. What are you gonna do first and 500 bucks by the way.

Zach White: 00:25:46

Okay, big money, big money. Jeff, as I think about that situation, the first thing that happens for me is, you know, my, my chest constricts, I feel stress. Like, this is not a good place compared to our AMP today, right that everything's in context. And so, truthfully, the very first thing I would do is meditate. Because one of the things that I believe in, is that energy is more important than strategy. And if my energy in that moment is one of fear, anxiety, stress, uncertainty, then that energy will disrupt my ability to perform the way I need to perform in that critical moment. So I think first thing I would do is take an hour and just meditate, get my energy, right. And then after that, for everybody was like, okay, that doesn't help at all? Well, I think it does help. But then then I would start honestly, just talking to people, I would start with people who not how, and I would probably ask the first 10 people I can find, what do you need the most help with? And just start getting a sense of what is the immediate need in my immediate circle? And how can I apply my skill to meet that need and just get some cash flow, get some things going, I can solve that for you. I can do this for you. And just get a base of some things going where I can get some money to pay that next that next bill and and then build from there. I love it. Fantastic. That's a great answer to it too.

Jeff Kikel: 00:27:17

Second question, what's the biggest business mistake you've ever made? Oh, goodness,

Zach White: 00:27:23

How much time do we have? Jeff? Pick one. All right. All right. One mistake, I'll tell you what it is. That's on my mind right now. I, I made the mistake in my coaching business of relying too heavily on LinkedIn as my exclusive channel for lead generation. And I waited far too long to diversify, marketing and lead generation off of the platform. And what ended up happening is the classic conundrum of I gave the keys to my marketing engine to someone else. And LinkedIn changed the rules. And overnight, my lead gen got cut by almost 90% because of different things that were happening on the platform. And that created a huge crisis in terms of keeping cash flow to cover my team and expenses and extremely stressful. So yeah, I think, you know, zero to one is the biggest step in business. But one is also the most dangerous. Number one, marketing channel one, sales engineer one, program one, and so one client. So I think, for me, the biggest mistake was just living in that world of belief that this will last a long time on LinkedIn, and I don't need to do anything else.

Jeff Kikel: 00:28:35

Yeah, exactly. Well, and they can change the rules overnight on an algorithm change. And poof, it goes away. You know, and I mean, I know the stories of people with Google, you know, that got the Google slapped down in the early 2000s and 2000 10s. And yeah, you know, they make they make a big change. And I mean, it can literally wipe a business out overnight. So yeah, you definitely have got to be in there and several different sources of leads so that you can get them coming in. So I applaud you for realizing that. What's a good book that you'd recommend for our audience?

Zach White: 00:29:11

I'll go with Psycho Cybernetics. By maxwell maltz is a classic. A lot of people don't talk about it anymore, which is too bad. If you back up to the days of Zig Ziglar and his prime he used to always reference Psycho Cybernetics. Jim Rohn. You know, Brian Tracy, all those guys talk about maxwell maltz his book but maxwell maltz is not super well known. But Psycho Cybernetics to me is one of the absolute foundational body of knowledge books around how your conscious and subconscious mind interact and helping you to kind of peel the curtain back on this part of you the subconscious that emotional centers of your body and nervous system and man it's it's so good. There's so much in there and when you read it, you're like, oh, That's what all these coaches are doing with all of these things like us putting their own spin on it, but a lot of that work was born right there and your identity, this idea of your self image and how that shapes what's possible for you. Awesome read, go get a copy of Psycho Cybernetics.

Jeff Kikel: 00:30:17

The scary thing is where I learned it was actually from Dan Kennedy, the marketing genius mean he, Oh, Dan Kennedy is my marketing guru. And he talked about cyber, cyber, cyber, cyber, cyber cybernetics. Yeah, I can't even say it in one of his books. And I was like, wow, I mean, if Dan Kennedy saying it's good, it's got to be good.

Zach White: 00:30:41

Here for those genetics, there we go. On the screen, but if you're listening to the audio, it's psycho like Psy CH OH, Psycho Cybernetics.

Jeff Kikel: 00:30:51

And we'll, we'll put a link to that in the show notes that you guys can get to it and and link to it from Amazon. Okay, what's a tool that you will use in your business every day that you might recommend for our audience?

Zach White: 00:31:05

There are so many and being an engineer, I geek out on tools. I'm always a sucker for a great new new piece of technology or tool. But the one that drives the backbone of my business is air table. To air table is an online database type of tool. It's not a spreadsheet, it is truly meant to serve as a database for you. And it's extremely collaborative to every other piece of tech out there, you know, your CRMs, your all your Google Suite tools, anything you want. Zapier, of course, but I mean, we literally drive everything in the business, from the financials to the client management to you know, podcast planning to everything, it's a really powerful tool, and a great way to organize data. So if that's something you need, go check out air table.

Jeff Kikel: 00:31:57

And they get they have some of the best tools that they create, for free. Views Google exactly air table, you'll find just tons of free stuff that they give out different do different tables and spreadsheets and everything else. Exactly.

Zach White: 00:32:13

There's template for every scenario you can think of. And, yeah, it's an awesome tool.

Jeff Kikel: 00:32:19

Yeah, and they always look good, too. It's not just a bunch of junk they put together. That's right. So last question, what is your definition of freedom?

Zach White: 00:32:29

Freedom to me, is when I combine 100% responsibility with the agency to follow through in my being an acting, freedom to be freedom to act. So it's, it's me saying I will take full, radical 100% responsibility for those two things. But then also, I'm not constrained to follow through on that responsibility. Right. So it's like that that old challenge of responsibility and no authority, like I'm accountable for I was expected to do it, but I can't. So we got to remove that. But also own it. I think it's not enough to just say you could be free it's, am I actually stepping into it. It's who I am, my being and my action. So that's a long winded Jeff, but but freedom to me is full responsibility in my being and actions executed in my life

Jeff Kikel: 00:33:29

What a wonderful answer to that. That's phenomenal. Well, Zach, I appreciate you being on. It was just a joy to interview you. I love what you're doing. You work with people that need your help and need your guidance. And you know, I can see it in you that you're doing what you need to be doing every day.

Zach White: 00:33:50

Jeff, thanks for having me. I really appreciate those words. And I want to acknowledge you man, the work that you're doing that light that inspiration for people who desire freedom. And I think that's one of those most core needs and desires in the human soul. And so I just love the work you're doing. It's a pleasure to be a part of it. And three cheers to my freedom day coming. As soon as poss coming

Jeff Kikel: 00:34:11

Man, it's coming. You're building it? Well, folks, thank you for joining us on the show. As always, make sure that you subscribe, wherever you're at right now. If you can give us comment, we'd love to hear about this. And if you can also share this with someone else. Share it with someone that could really use Zach's message. And that, you know, is I think the best gift you can give to anybody is to share something that really resonated with you as well. So we'll see you back here next time and the next time we'll be once a week.